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Lindell then got personal with me. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. When he agreed to accept an $850,000 annual pay package while other staff were being laid off due to declining offerings, was he in a fugue state, incapable of understanding what was going on? The youngest generation may be leaving the church in record numbers but at least they have a fighting chance of finding the real God later. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. "It is possible for someone who has practiced a life of adultery to stop," he said in the sermon. Has he asked them to forgive him? "Addressing this topic or the subject of the upcoming vote from the pulpit is not against the law in this country, although it may be in the future," Lindell said in the sermon. Now the floodgates will open wide now that his massive deception becomes public knowledge in Australia and the UK. kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. Your California Privacy Rights / Privacy Policy. one had an alcohol problem 3 years ago and one has a drug problem that recently occured due to overprescribing of pain medication turned to street drug use. standing. Thanks for that recommendation. The Weapons Of Our Warfare Are Not Carnal?. He can be reached at 836-1253, spokin@gannett.com, on Twitter @stevepokinNL or by mail at 651 N. Boonville, Springfield, MO 65806. He is a draw. But guess what else happened? helpful or even hopeful in terms of my eternal afterlife. if your a sports fan theres a point of where something amazing is about to happenfootball baseball in the middle of a game changing moment they jump out of their seat. Pun intended. Actually, I think the timing was just for that reason. The best thing about it is one young woman had incredible courage. I will post about this. . Otherwise, its authentic shunning for you. James River Church Engaged Employer Overview 38 Reviews 63 Jobs 26 Salaries -- Interviews 9 Benefits 47 Photos 12 Diversity Follow + Add a Review Employee Review See All Reviews ( 38) 2.0 Former Employee, more than 3 years Leadership not always what they portray Mar 2, 2017 - Anonymous Employee in Ozark, MO Recommend CEO Approval I had never heard someone talk like that. IMO, They are still who they are. Did MD admit to being WWII under duress or was that more mischief from Dark Miscoll? elisabeth seton wrote: I agree with you there, but I wonder, how popular is this hyper macho brand of Christianity anymore? He told me he appreciated my column and my work at the News-Leader. Internet users are also shielded from much of GW reality. His auto suggestive words were a dead give away! It refers to protecting the King of Israel from physical harm, not preventing people from telling the truth. . from dictionary: Some great insights there, Bob. *carefully targeting pastors who want to build an empire of their own with an easy publicity stunt (although described Christian-like so it actually sounds noble, in both marketing and in the buying pastors self-talk), @ LT: We would love for you to join us for a service. Of course but that is so remote given the environment I am not holding my breath. Mark is playing the victim. I dont beleive that for a moment. where is Mark Driscolls apology to over a thousand children in two orphanages? Christian geneticist and U.S. National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins suggested most churches should postpone in-person services due to COVID-19 until at least summer 2021, when every American is expected to have had the opportunity to get vaccinated, The Christian Post recently reported. There is great comfort to be found in that. In a statement to the Ozarks Independent, James River Church said it has taken temperatures at the door, sanitized its children's areas and common areas multiple times per day, provided masks. I had never heard someone talk like that. How can a reasonable person look past that? people have said to stay involved in churches to keep them encouraged to follow the Lord and speak up if they are going away towards money and corruption, that is no longer even possible, you can get shunned slandered and prob threats to your life for speaking up anymore. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. if mark is truly repentant than this sermon is him explaining how he persecuted and publicly stoned stephen to death which was actually mark stoning Jesus to death publicly and with no remorse. Great comment Bridget. well i cant finish watching the whole thing. ", Meanwhile, here's what was communicated 'Down Under' "Houston, we have a problem.". When and where did this start? we will see jesus face to face I dont want you to take your slander etc with you. I am sorry if anything I wrote about Che offended you. Some of it probably is. What do you think, Albuquerque? (remembering marks sermon about mark being king) jesus is seated and he stands up for stephen. This can be anything from praying for people over the phone to working in the Online Campus studio. Did Paul plagiarize? He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. He is young and using Jesus is all he knows. Lindell needs to state, specifically, what has been written about Driscoll that is a lie, because he is in effect calling all the victims and the 40 pastors/elders who filed formal charges against MD liars. We are passionate about . Judging a pastors or missionaries repentance is not being critical of pastors, its saying, this is a position that has really high moral qualifications and if you dont have them, get out of the pulpit. A lot of people will say, 'I got that. Mark was talking about Mark. Lindell hit two main points: the Bible is clear in its condemnation of homosexuality as sin and the ordinance is an infringement on the religious rights of Christians who believe so. There are some Calvinists who go in the opposite direction and are very humbled by their monergistic view of salvation. yeah, that pastors comment is kinda too scary for me to think about lol. Yes, thanks for this. Maybe six months from now, there'll be another terrible story, and we'll know that they BS'd us. I know, that sounds horribly arrogant but I lacked it in buckets for years. The following excerpt from that article caught my attention: "I do not want unnecessary distractions during our conference, particularly as this 30 minute interview was only a small part of this five day event," Mr Houston said in a statement. love to hear that sermon. I do hope that nobody is still saying these same things before they clean up their own act. What am I saying? Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . I completely understand why you are so skeptical. 2.the contents of the gallbladder; bile (proverbial for its bitterness). First, he begins by praying that he wants to make this time just about God and His people; yet he appears to take the stories of Stephen and Paul and apply them to his own circumstance at least that's how it sounded to me. Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. I used to buy into this,thinking it is such wisdom to see ourselves in the examples of scripture, until I realized that we never seem to see ourselves as the villain. They are used to being believed no matter what they say. Im fairly certain MD would enjoy being categorized with a so called revolutionary. Connect With Us! In other words, his behavior did change. Seriously? . Ches rise and fall occurred before I was born so Id sincerely appreciate any insight and correction. I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. James River Church Online - James River TV @ Nancy: The reason why I answered like that is because most of this stuff goes on because the pew sitters are not actively involved in the church operatons and are not demanding openess and transparancy of staff and leaders. Thats how reasonable people see past the wicked. I will never forget the first time I was looking at an org chart of a mega while prepping to facilitate a planning session. Don't you know that the way he behaved and treated people is no big deal? A cynical, weary part of me says theyll never change. Youre right. However, some of his employees and family were taken in by SBTS and seem to be doing ok. IMO, the church as a whole can help to regulate these things by exposing them and explaining how they do not reflect Christ at all. Thats why these massive megas arent likely to represent the narrow gate. You sure would think so, but to quote H.L. They noted that since the pandemic began, they have taken very stringent precautions at each service, including: take temperatures at the door, fog-sanitize their auditorium, sanitize the childrens areas and common areas multiple times daily and provide masks to everyone who attends. Youre not trying hard enough! Its all good until (insert question or issue). They knew exactly what they were buying. I would lay 50 to 1 odds that a change in MD will be announced and proved to be a change in words not a change in behavior! But what does that mean in the larger picture? Totally. Help keep The Christian Post free for everyone by making a one-time donation today. It is profoundly ironic that false teachers twist this particular scripture in an abusive way to their advantage just so that they can continue abusing. This was a new song to me. an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. Who cares about that pesky truth so long as there are clean bathrooms, great hot coffee and rockin worship? Thank you again. I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. Others obviously put a lot more emphasis on organizational structures, so they might see things differently. The only two ways that I can think of for having said benchmarks, assuming by leadership you mean pastor(s) and not just chairman of some committee, is either having a system with central authority with established criteria which must be met prior to ordination and some written policies which are grounds for dismissal in certain conditions, That would be a denominational hierarchical system with designated people with authority and with something in writing, like an official book of how we do it. Or else to have a savvy and informed and mature congregation who would agree with and co-operate with each other on what was necessary and what needed done and which would have the actual power (backing of the people) to get it done. What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. Mark Driscoll has a lot of repenting to do and until he does that he should not be permitted to preach/speak at any church. I think it is perfectly ok to say some people are toxic and avoid them for safety and mental health reasons. Maybe then, someone would seek him out to lead and it would be safe again. Obviously, I disagree with Lindell on the upcoming vote. That does not mean you want harm to come to them. Lindell has expressed his views on the topic before. Your comment is insightful and probably (for the AoG churches) right on the money. I dont view it as cynicism although I do joke about it that way around Christians to head off the backlash. (the homes), just a few helpful links re: hillsong lol, http://www.news.com.au/national/hillsong-church-linked-to-abuse-claims/story-e6frfkp9-1111115815321. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. He diverts attention from the real purpose, the Gospel, to himself. So quick question if anyone wants to take a whack at it. My guess is that their Calvinism isnt the root problem here. I was shocked and deeply saddened to see photos from the James River event over the weekend. There is no glorifying God in any of that. So why would they view power and authority as central to the Gospel? In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? Kids will experience life-giving messages and TONS of fun as they watch content created just for them. @ Lydia: "It is possible for someone who has been a life-long alcoholic to stop. Really? Only the hero. as to revenue streams, Jesus paid His taxes with money a fish popped up with. (This was all before the sex sermons and book.) Does it lie with Driscoll/Chandler or does it lie with the people whom they want to trust them? Because cheap grace for Christians who are not decent people is all the rage now. So, I read what he wrote, I listened to his speeches, sermons, etc. Tom Lane already draws a massive six figure salary yet it is never enough. Mencken: No one in this world, so far as I know and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. years ago when non denoms were pentecostal and full gospelit seemed they were trying to get back to the Jesus of the bible, the Living Jesus. I wonder how much of this concern over gay rights is to deflect people from considering their own deficiencies. He repeated what he has said in the past: He believes if the issue is to be addressed it should be done at the federal level. . We are dedicated to making a difference in the lives of people through relevant teaching, heartfelt worship, and amazing kids & youth programs. He screamed and swore. But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. I have a young friend who was totally enamored with him. At least at one point, women made up about 50% to 50% of most churches. The word "love" appears, Lindell said, because it would be unloving not to tell someone that when salvation is at stake. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. These leaders are lacking even a basic level of discernment or judgement. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. What I didnt know until this year is how much they are invading their universities as well. In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? 15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land. Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? Eye Hath Not Seen, Nor Ear Heard What He hath prepared for those who love Him?. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. i havent seen any video or statement where he has actually apologized for anything except being mean when he should have been nicer in throwing people under the bus, shoulda offered them a pillow maybe so they didnt hit the ground so hard, but totally right in throwing them. That idea was right before the idea that they were always having to give a lot of money to the church while we have voluntary giving. All the more reason that Driscoll appears arrogant and pompous to me and doesnt at all seem to understand the damage hes caused. A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. The mighty Kari Jobe is featured in some of the faking it videos they play in the classes. 1 point: homosexuality is a sin, according to the Bible, and Christians should vote for repeal. I wish I knewits beyond comprehension. Mars Hill Church was ending its relationship to Agathos. ATB i think that it worked quite well for Youth with a Mission for several years and then it went awry and i dont know the particulars of what happened. i have seen so much of what you wrote about to know that it is true, a big orchestrated show to fleece sheep and get fame. I suspect that process would take a bit longer with Driscoll hes a bigger mess. But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. His appeal, then and now, has much to do with his looks plus a perception of him being anti-establishment, which he was. Good point as far as it goes. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. But the dishonest churches can be relied upon to cry persecution. Imagine that. Driscoll has used this vague parallels to himself many times, framing the sermon in the context of his own life with the lives of other noble characters, most notably Jesus. LOL! ( a stage really ) Same old spin .different tune. I think Dr Fundy left out the irony/sarcasm tags introduced with HTML 5.5. He is listening for your litl sweet voice! Also, I received another great message from one of our Australia graduates thought this would bless you too Yes, well, my sense of humor doesnt always translate well in the blogosphere . Thanks for the link i want to read more of the writers work. Very simple. I didnt realize tens of thousands had already left. Missouri megachurch under fire over crowded Christmas services | Church They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. In a March 15 sermon, Lindell urged congregants to repeal Springfield's sexual orientation and gender identity law on April 7. It was like my eyes were open. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. When Robert brags about lunching with Greg Abbott, golfing with George W Bush or being Rick Santorums spiritual advisor, it makes me feel ill. I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. Are they involved in a joint venture? And he was not originally trusted or met with open arms by the Jesus believers of the day. Welcome Home to Church Online! I think that explains a lot of it. I really do believe that Driscoll has sociopathic tendencies. @ Bridget: If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. His most shocking was when just before he stepped down from the pulpit and was in the midst of many scandals, he did a sermon on the many mistakes of Jesus. Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. Some are stronger and more capable of speaking out and as we feel able to I believe that we must. They are described as brilliant. I dont think he is qualified to lead any church or ministry of any size until he exhibits the fruit of the Spirit for a long, long time. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on Sundays. well this world is full of executives that get caught in sin and crime and immorality that give wonderful speeches of how sorry they are and then they turn around and get a promotion and never give a single thought to the people they destroyed on their way to the top. I believe this is the 2 Thessalonians time period so it will become increasingly more difficult to avoid false teachers. Let's see. Did nefarious conspirators plagiarize his books, hire Result Source and use his evil twin again to go with his wife to meet with his agents to put that $210,000 manipulation in place, all behind the real MDs back? Monday, December 15, 2008 That was not my intention. the money that was supposed to be going to missionaries in another country had been intertwined with the general fund. I know how hard false teaching is to bear. They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. "Homosexual activity will lead to destruction. With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. But that does not restore the trust in the relationship, and trust is the blood of good relationships. When that donor eventually supported our decision to leave peaceably, Jamie Munson was in a pickle. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community Your comment about magic words reminded me of Simon the Magician in Acts who was so popular and had all kinds of attention because of his magic performances. At a cash price of 2600 Denarii ($210,000 in Roman money) a book? he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. There are now more single adults in the U.S.A. than married couples, but churches (even the mega ones) keep going after the married folks. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting such a bully in the name of Jesus Christ. When you add atmosphere teams to further manipulate peoples worship experience that is too much. Do these Pentecostal leaders believe that there is a doppelgnger out there who tied MD up in a basement then impersonated him, swearing and saying horrible things from the pulpit? I gave Lindell a chance to respond to that tally. pure grace are you or have been in similar situation to stephen? so many for so long have used caring for others while taking funding from orphans, politicians treating everyone equally and standing by the christian forefathers etc that it actually means nothing anymore. Was that MDs evil twin Dark Miscoll who said elders who disagree with him need to be put in wood chippers or that women need to bring their men to Jesus by orally servicing them every morning whether they like it or not? He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. Mark Driscoll has shown that hes capable of inflicting a lot of damage on many people. I think what became public is enough to realize they are not safe, not mature but toxic and have been all along. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. But maybe power is just something that is too tempting for him to handle and in order for him to live out his life following Christ, it may be something he must never let pass his lipsmuch like alcoholics cannot drink again. In a statement Monday, the Christian County Health Department said they also received numerous complaints from the community about the services and urged those who attended to monitor themselves for COVID-19 symptoms over the next 14 days. rather than come in glory he came in humility. I hope you encourage them to visit TWW. Certainly, or we are no better than he is. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. He screamed and swore. And did he threaten to punch Pastor Lindell in the nose and throw him under the bus if he wasnt given the gig? Theres a persistent rumor that hes going to bring his show here to Phoenix. But it would be encouraging if they did. when mercy ministries was investigated at hillsong amazingly the leader Nancy Acorn opened up shop in the u.s. and has many supporters among the christian circuit Here is the gist of Driscolls message: its all about me and Im a martyr for the faith!, Same old Driscoll, full of male bovine meadow muffins. LOL! I present to you James River church in Springfield Missouri this past weekend. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. Pastors that dont understand the devestation they cause by playing God in peoples lives, especially women and childrens lives, have no business calling themselves christians and certainly shouldnt be in positions where people might think they are speaking for God Himself when they tell them how to live.